Entries tagged with “Political Leaders”
Death Row
Feb 01, 2022
California Governor Gavin Newsom Orders Dismantling of State’s Death Row
California’s death row — the largest in the country — will be dismantled within two years, Governor Gavin Newsom announced on January 31,…
Facts & Research
Recent Legislative Activity
,Apr 12, 2019
New Hampshire Senate Passes Death-Penalty Repeal With Veto-Proof Majority
In a vote death-penalty opponents praised as “historic,” a veto-proof supermajority of the New Hampshire legislature gave final approval to a bill that would repeal the state’s death penalty statute. By a vote of 17 – 6, the senators voted on April 11, 2019 to end capital prosecutions in the Granite State, exceeding the two-thirds majority necessary to override an anticipated veto by Governor Chris Sununu. In March, the state House of Representatives passed the same abolition…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Innocence
,Race
,Clemency
,Executions Overview
,Lethal Injection
,Mar 13, 2019
California Governor Announces Moratorium on Executions
California Governor Gavin Newsom on March 13, 2019 declared a moratorium on executions in the state with the nation’s largest death row. Newsom implemented the moratorium through an executive order granting reprieves to the 737 prisoners currently on California’s death row. He also announced that he was withdrawing the state’s execution protocol — the administrative plan by which executions are carried out — and was closing down the state’s execution chamber. In his executive order imposing the…
Facts & Research
Recent Legislative Activity
,New Voices
,Jan 23, 2019
Bill to Abolish Wyoming’s Death Penalty Introduced with Bipartisan Support
A bipartisan coalition of Wyoming legislators has introduced a bill to abolish the state’s death penalty. On January 15, 2019, Cheyenne Republican State Representative Jared Olsen (pictured, left) and Republican State Senator Brian Boner (pictured, right), introduced HB145, which would repeal the death penalty and replace it with a judicially imposed sentence of life without parole or life imprisonment. The bill, co-sponsored by sixteen other…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Recent Legislative Activity
,New Voices
,Jul 10, 2018
Kentucky Legislature Conducts Hearing on the Commonwealth’s Death Penalty
A joint committee of the Kentucky legislature conducted a hearing on July 6, 2018 on the Commonwealth’s rarely used death penalty, including a presentation by supporters and opponents of a bill to abolish capital punishment. The General Assembly’s Interim Joint Committee on Judiciary took testimony from prosecutors, defense attorneys, correctional officials, and legislators on issues ranging from costs and arbitrariness to the length of the appeal…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Victims' Families
,Recent Legislative Activity
,New Voices
,Jan 16, 2018
Bipartisan Effort to Abolish Death Penalty Gains Momentum in Washington
With the backing of the state’s governor and attorney general, Democratic and Republican sponsors of a bill to repeal Washington’s capital-punishment statute have expressed optimism that the state may abolish the death penalty in 2018. In 2017, Attorney General Bob Ferguson, a Democrat, was joined by former Attorney General Rob McKenna, a Republican, in calling on the legislature to end the state’s death penalty. Ferguson, who has said “[t]here is no role for capital…
Policy Issues
Costs
,New Voices
,Jan 11, 2018
Idaho County Considers Leaving State Defense Fund As Way to Deter Capital Prosecutions
To deter future use of the death penalty in their county, the Blaine County, Idaho County Commissioners on January 2 voted to consider withdrawing from the state’s Capital Crimes Defense Fund as a way to choke off state funding in capital prosecutions. “This is a way for our county to say we don’t support the death penalty, and that we don’t want the prosecutor seeking it in Blaine County,” said Commissioner Larry Schoen (pictured), who proposed the…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Deterrence
,Victims' Families
,Recent Legislative Activity
,Religion
,New Voices
,Jan 08, 2018
Conservative Voices Continue to Call for End of Death Penalty
From October 2016 to October 2017, support for capital punishment among those identifying themselves as Republicans fell by ten percetage points. Two op-eds published towards the end of the year illustrate the growing conservative opposition to the death penalty. Writing in The Seattle Times on December 27, Republican State Senator Mark Miloscia (pictured, l.) called for bipartisan efforts to repeal Washington’s death-penalty statute. In a December…
Policy Issues
Arbitrariness
,New Voices
,Aug 08, 2017
Mark White, Former Governor of Texas and Death-Penalty Critic, Dies at 77
Mark White (official portrait, pictured), a former governor and attorney general of Texas who became an outspoken critic of the death penalty, died on August 5 at the age of 77. Mr. White served as governor from 1983 to 1987, during which time he oversaw 19 executions. In an unsuccessful comeback bid in 1990, a campaign ad touted his strong support for the death penalty, featuring photos of the men executed during his tenure as governor and declaring, “Only a governor can…
Policy Issues
Costs
,New Voices
,Aug 03, 2017
Political Analysis: Is Conservative Support the Future of Death-Penalty Abolition?
In a forthcoming article in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, released online in July, Ben Jones argues that, despite the popular conception of death-penalty abolition as a politically progressive cause, its future success may well depend upon building support among Republicans and political conservatives. In The Republican Party, Conservatives, and the Future of Capital Punishment, Jones — the Assistant Director of Rock Ethics Institute at Pennsylvania…
Policy Issues
Costs
,International
,New Voices
,Jun 16, 2017
Former Governor Bill Richardson: Death Penalty Is Bad for Business, Out of Step With World’s Views
In a Washington Post op-ed, former New Mexico Governor and United Nations Ambassador Bill Richardson (pictured) — who in 2009 signed a bill to abolish his state’s death penalty — urged that capital punishment be abolished in the United States, saying “[t]he practice is wrong and I hope it isn’t long for this…
Policy Issues
Innocence
,Clemency
,New Voices
,Apr 14, 2017
With Looming Execution and Serious Innocence Concerns, Calls Mount for Virginia to Grant Clemency to Ivan Teleguz
Amid mounting concerns that Virginia may execute an innocent man on April 25, a diverse group of religious, political, and business leaders are calling on Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe to grant clemency to Ivan Teleguz (pictured). Their pleas for clemency stress that Teleguz was convicted based upon highly unreliable testimony and sentenced to death based upon false testimony that he had been involved in a fabricated Pennsylvania murder…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Deterrence
,Recent Legislative Activity
,Religion
,New Voices
,Apr 12, 2017
Louisiana Legislature Considers Bipartisan Measure to Abolish Death Penalty
Three Louisiana legislators, all of them former law enforcement officials, have proposed legislation to abolish the state’s death penalty. Sen. Dan Claitor (R‑Baton Rouge, pictured), a former New Orleans prosecutor who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, is the primary author of Senate Bill 142, which would eliminate the death penalty for offenses committed on or after August 1, 2017. The bill’s counterpart in the House of Representatives, House Bill 101, is sponsored by…
Policy Issues
Mental Illness
,Recent Legislative Activity
,New Voices
,Mar 30, 2017
NEW VOICES: Bipartisan Former Governors Support Death Penalty Exemption for Those With Severe Mental Illness
In a joint op-ed for The Washington Post, former governors Bob Taft (pictured, l.) and Joseph E. Kernan (pictured, r.) have expressed bipartisan support for proposed legislation that would prohibit the use of the death penalty against people who have severe mental illness. Taft, a former Republican governor of Ohio, and Kernan, a former Democratic governor of Indiana, call the execution of mentally ill defendants “an inhumane practice that fails to respect common standards of decency…
Policy Issues
Race
,New Voices
,Mar 23, 2017
Florida Black Caucus, Victim’s Parents Urge Governor to Rescind Order Removing Prosecutor For Not Seeking Death Penalty
The Florida Legislative Black Caucus has joined more than 100 lawyers and legal experts and the parents of murder victim Sade Dixon in urging Governor Rick Scott to rescind his order removing Orange-Osceola County State Attorney Aramis Ayala (pictured) from a high-profile double murder case in which she decided to not seek the death penalty. The other victim in the case, Lt. Debra Clayton, was an Orlando police officer. Governor Scott did not speak with…
Policy Issues
Race
,New Voices
,Jan 09, 2017
National Black Caucus of State Legislators Call for Repeal of Death Penalty
Saying that “race plays a decisive role in who lives and who dies” in capital cases in the United States, the National Black Caucus of State Legislators (NBCSL) voted at its 40th annual conference on December 14, 2016, to adopt its first ever resolution calling for the abolition of the death penalty. The resolution states that “racial bias in the criminal justice system, including the death penalty and its application, is an undisputed fact,” and notes that “from slavery to…
Policy Issues
Race
,New Voices
,Sep 07, 2016
National Hispanic Caucus of State Legislators Calls for Abolition of Death Penalty
Calling racial bias in the administration of the death penalty “an undisputed fact,” the National Hispanic Caucus of State Legislators (NHCSL), a group of 320 Hispanic legislators, has passed a resolution urging legislative action in all state and federal jurisdictions to repeal the death penalty across the United States. The legislators note that the criminal justice system subjects “Black, Latino, Native Americans, and all people of color” to more punitive treatment,…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Innocence
,New Voices
,Jul 11, 2016
Nebraska Exonerees Awarded $28 Million, Prosecutor Says Case Made Him Oppose Death Penalty
A federal court jury has awarded six Nebraska exonerees (pictured, at their exoneration) $28 million in damages for official misconduct that led to their wrongful convictions in the 1985 rape and murder of Helen…
Facts & Research
New Voices
,May 18, 2016
Support for the Death Penalty by Republican Legislators No Longer a Sure Thing
One year after the Nebraska legislature voted to repeal the death penalty and overrode a gubernatorial veto of that measure, actions in legislatures across the country suggest that the state’s efforts signalled a growing movement against the death penalty by conservative legislators and that support for the death penalty among Republican legislators is no longer a given. Reporting in The Washington Post, Amber Phillips writes that Republican legislators in ten states sponsored or…
Policy Issues
Costs
,Innocence
,Recent Legislative Activity
,New Voices
,Mar 01, 2016
NEW VOICES: Republican Former Death Penalty Supporter Leads Repeal Effort in Utah
Stephen Urquhart (pictured), a Republican state senator in Utah, supported the death penalty until about a year ago, when a friend convinced him that capital punishment didn’t fit his conservative beliefs. Now Urquhart sees the death penalty as inefficient, costly, and wrong and is the lead sponsor of a bill to repeal the state’s death penalty. He said concerns about the cost of the death penalty and the risk of executing an innocent person changed his stance on the issue. In…
Facts & Research
Recent Legislative Activity
,Sentencing Data
,New Voices
,Executions Overview
,Jan 27, 2016
Missouri Likely to See Change After Historic High in Executions
A decline in executions is likely in Missouri after two years of unusually high numbers. In 2014, Missouri tied with Texas for the most executions in the U.S., and it was second to Texas in 2015. However, changing attitudes about the death penalty – similar to national shifts – are evident in Missouri’s sentencing trends: no one was sentenced to death in Missouri in 2014 or 2015, and less than one person per year has been sentenced to death in the past seven years. Moreover, a…
Apr 21, 2011
NEW VOICES: Former Supporter Will Oppose Any Measure to Restore Minnesota Death Penalty
Minnesota Senator Tom Neuville, the leading Republican committee member on the state’s Senate Judiciary Committee, says he will oppose Governor Tim Pawlenty’s efforts to reinstate death penalty. Neuville’s basic opposition is moral: “If we solve violence by becoming violent ourselves, we become diminished.” Neuville, a former death penalty supporter whose reexamination of his pro-life beliefs led him to change his mind on the issue, feels that many of his colleagues share his…
Policy Issues
Innocence
,New Voices
,Aug 25, 2008
NEW VOICES: Former U.S. Senator Joseph Tydings Speaks About the Death Penalty
Joseph D. Tydings is a former U.S. Senator from Maryland who has both prosecuted and defended death penalty cases. In a recent op-ed in the Baltimore Sun he wrote of his growing concerns about capital punishment generally, and about Maryland’s death penalty in particular. His experience with the death penalty led him to the conclusion that “deep and irrefutable flaws are built into our present system of capital punishment. These flaws hold the most…
Facts & Research
New Voices
,May 07, 2008
NEW VOICES: “How New Jersey Abolished the Death Penalty”
In 1982, as a second term Assemblyman, Raymond Lesniak voted to reinstate the death penalty in New Jersey. In December 2007, New Jersey voted to abolish the death penalty, becoming the first state in 40 years to accomplish this. Senator Lesniak was one of the sponsors and legislative leaders of the abolition bill. He has written a new book: “The Road to Abolition: How New Jersey Abolished the Death Penatly.” In commenting on the book, Senator Lesniak said, “Why do I care so much about the…
Policy Issues
Arbitrariness
,Innocence
,New Voices
,Oct 04, 2007
NEW VOICES: Texas Lt. Governor Backs Creation of Innocence Commission, Urges Review of the Death Penalty for Accomplices
In a recent meeting with the Fort Worth Star-Telegram Editorial Board, Texas Lt. Governor David Dewhurst (pictured) urged legislators to re-examine the state law that allows an accomplice to be tried by the same judge and jury as the shooter in murder cases, adding that he agreed with Governor Rick Perry’s decision to commute Kenneth Eugene Foster’s death sentence to life in prison based on similar concerns. Dewhurst also called on legislators to establish a state innocence commission to…
Facts & Research
Clemency
,New Voices
,Sep 18, 2007
BACKGROUND ON RECENT COMMUTATION: “Grossly Inadequate” Representation in a System that “Broke Down”
Just two days after Tennessee’s first electrocution in nearly 50 years, Governor Phil Bredesen (pictured) commuted the death sentence of Michael Joe Boyd to life in prison without parole. The Governor called the representation Boyd received during his appeals “grossly inadequate,” adding that Boyd’s claims were never comprehensively reviewed because his appellate attorney — Dan Seward — failed to provide evidence to support Boyd’s initial claim that he was poorly represented during his trial.
Policy Issues
Representation
,New Voices
,Aug 16, 2007
U.S. Senators Question Justice Department’s Plan to Expedite Executions
U.S. Senators Patrick Leahy (D‑VT) and Arlen Specter (R‑PA) (pictured) are urging the Justice Department to delay new rules that would give Attorney General Alberto Gonzales authority to limit the time death row inmates spend pursuing appeals before being executed. Senator Leahy chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Sen. Specter is the ranking Republican member of that committee. The two recently sent a bipartisan letter to Gonzales expressing concerns about whether states have adequate…
Policy Issues
Innocence
,New Voices
,Feb 07, 2007
NEW VOICES: Missouri Representative Calls for Halt to Executions
Missouri Rep. Bill Deeken (pictured), a Republican death penalty proponent, has introduced legislation that would halt executions in the state until 2011 and would create a capital punishment commission to examine the fairness and accuracy of Missouri’s death penalty. Deeken stated that his motivation for the bill came after realizing that the state’s death penalty has not been implemented fairly in all cases and it does not adequately prevent wrongful convictions. He noted, “I am not against…
Policy Issues
Victims' Families
,New Voices
,Sep 25, 2006
NEW VOICES: NJ Assemblyman Changes Position on Death Penalty — Legislator Also Lost A Family Member
State Assemblyman Nelson T. Albano of Cape May, New Jersey, announced at a forum on the death penalty that he has changed his mind and now opposes capital punishment. Albano said that his change of heart came after reading a book about Kirk Bloodsworth, the 1st death-row inmate in the United States to be exonerated by DNA evidence. The book led him to the insight into that the capital-punishment system is flawed and should be put on…
Policy Issues
Innocence
,New Voices
,Feb 22, 2006
Lawmakers Apologize to the 100th Person Freed From Death Row
Several members of the Arizona House and Senate recently offered apologies to Ray Krone (pictured), a former Arizona death row inmate who was freed in 2002 following new DNA tests. The apologies followed standing ovations from members of the state’s House and Senate when Krone was introduced to the legislators in each chamber during floor sessions. Krone, who now travels the nation educating people about the problems with the death penalty, accepted the legislators’ apologies and stated,…
Policy Issues
Innocence
,New Voices
,Feb 01, 2006
NEW VOICES: Legislator Who Pushed for Faster Executions Now Has Changed His Mind
Pennsylvania State Representative Michael McGeehan, a tough-on-crime lawmaker from Philadelphia, who earlier had pushed for expedited executions, now regrets that stance. He is sponsoring legislation that would compensate those who have been wrongly convicted. McGeehan’s bill, which would also immediately expunge a wrongly convicted person’s criminal record, was prompted by his outrage at the number of people who have been wrongly convicted and released from…
Policy Issues
International
,New Voices
,Jan 26, 2006
NEW VOICES: Former Ambassador to France Addresses Impact of Death Penalty on Foreign Relations
In a recent op-ed in The New York Times, Felix G. Rohatyn (pictured), the U.S. Ambassador to France from 1997 to 2001, noted that during his tenure “no single issue was viewed with as much hostility as our support for the death penalty.” Rohatyn urged the U.S. to consider the impact of maintaining capital punishment on our relations with our allies, and he stated that consideration of international trends is appropriate when cases are reviewed by the Supreme Court. Rohatyn…
Policy Issues
Victims' Families
,Recent Legislative Activity
,New Voices
,Jan 17, 2006
NEW VOICES: Virginia Legislators And Victims Speak Against Death Penalty
Two Virginia lawmakers who have had a family member murdered recently spoke in opposition to the death penalty. During a senate committee hearing on a bill to impose a moratorium on executions, Senators Henry L. Marsh III and Janet D. Howell noted that their opposition to the death penalty was based in their experience of losing a loved one to murder. Howell’s father-in-law was murdered in his home eight years ago. She noted, “Up until then, I was in favor of the death penalty. But…
Dec 15, 2004
NEW VOICES: Andrew Cuomo Calls for Reexamination of NY’s Death Penalty
Andrew Cuomo (pictured), who served as U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1997 to 2001, recently urged New York lawmakers to put an end to the death penalty. The state is holding hearings on capital punishment in the wake of a N.Y. Court of Appeals decision finding the statute unconstitutional earlier this year. In his op-ed in The New York Times, Cuomo noted: The Democrats, who control the Assembly, should make it clear that they will not pass a new death penalty law. This…
Nov 23, 2004
NEW VOICES: New York Lawmakers Say Death Penalty’s Future May Be in Doubt
According to prominent New York lawmakers, there is little chance that legislators will pass a bill this year to fix the state’s unconstitutional death penalty. Many experts believe that the state’s statute, which N.Y.‘s highest court struck down earlier this year, may never be re-enacted. Republican Senator Dale M. Volker noted that when the Court of Appeals struck down the law, New York heard “the death knell of the death penalty, for the time being.” Sheldon Silver, the Democratic Speaker…
Oct 19, 2004
NEW VOICES: Bush and Kerry Express Views on Executing Juvenile Offenders
In a forum hosted by the New Voters Project, U.S. Presidential candidates George Bush and John Kerry expressed their views on executing juvenile offenders. “Federal law prohibits execution of those under 18 when the offense was committed, and I see no reason to change that statute,” said President Bush. Senator John Kerry stated, “I do not think that executing minors is good policy.” (Knight-Ridder, October 17, 2004). On October 13th, the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Roper v.
Sep 28, 2004
NEW VOICES: Author of Arizona’s Death Penalty Law Has Second Thoughts
When Justice Sandra Day O’Connor was a senator in Arizona, one of the people she asked to draft the state’s death penalty law was Rudolph Gerber. She requested that he “write a law we can live with.” Mr. Gerber went on to become a prosecutor, an Arizona trial judge, and eventually a judge on the Arizona Court of Appeals for 13 years. He recently expressed his changing views on capital punishment as he experienced how the law was put into practice: “My experience, not atypical by any means,…
Sep 16, 2004
NEW VOICES: Many Call For A More Thorough Review of the Death Penalty in NY
New York Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, a long time supporter of capital punishment, called for New York’s legislature to step back and more thoroughly review the state’s death penalty system, which has not resulted in any executions and has cost the state more than $170 million in the last decade. Speaker Silver said that his chamber would not follow the lead of the state Senate, which passed an amendment to fix the state’s death penalty law without hearings. “After 10 years of…
Jun 29, 2004
NEW VOICES: Texas Democrats Endorse Moratorium on Executions, End to Juvenile Death Penalty
The Texas Democratic Party has adopted an historic party platform that contains a number of death penalty reform recommendations, including a call for legislators to enact a moratorium on executions, to ban the execution of juvenile offenders and the mentally ill, and to consider adopting a life without paroles sentence in Texas. More than 1,700 attendees at the Democratic Party’s state convention signed a resolution calling for the moratorium, surpassing the 30% signature…
May 04, 2004
NEW VOICES: Massachusetts District Attorneys Criticize Governor’s Death Penalty Plan
District attorneys from several Massachusetts counties, including Suffolk, Norfolk, Middlesex, Essex and Barnstable, had strong reservations about Governor Mitt Romney’s attempt to establish a nearly “foolproof” death penalty system in the state. Some noted that nothing can eliminate the possibility of human error in such cases. The district attorneys said that the state’s medical examiner’s office and crime labs are currently overwhelmed with work, and that the labs do not have the capacity…
Apr 14, 2004
NEW VOICES: Law Enforcement Officials Support Bill to End Juvenile Death Penalty
A bipartisan measure to eliminate the juvenile death penalty in Florida has passed the Senate Criminal Justice Committee and is now on its way to the full Senate for consideration. The measure was introduced by Republican Senator Victor Crist, a death penalty supporter who notes that young people are different because they don’t have the same understanding of consequences as an adult. .The bill also has support from the state’s top law enforcement officers, Florida Attorney General…
Mar 10, 2004
Florida Capital Punishment Supporter Urges State to Abandon Juvenile Death Penalty
Florida Senator Victor Crist (R‑Tampa), a long-time death penalty supporter, is asking his legislative colleagues to support a bill to bar the juvenile death penalty in Florida. “In my heart and soul I believe it’s the right thing to do. There is a certain essence of juveniles that make them different,” said Crist. Research supports that notion. David Fassler, a Vermont psychiatrist who helped the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry draft its policy against capital punishment…
Feb 24, 2004
NEW VOICES: Connecticut Lags Behind in Death Penalty Reforms
The Chair of Connecticut’s Judiciary Committee has called for enactment of death penalty reforms to protect against wrongful convictions. Of the six reforms recommended after a 13-month special commission on Connecticut’s death penalty, only one has been enacted. Members of the commission noted, “Experiences in other states throughout the country suggest that Connecticut cannot be complacent and ‘best practices’ should be the watchword.” Among the recommendations are video taping of…
Jan 23, 2004
NEW VOICES: Former Kansas State Senator Urges Legislators to Enact Moratorium
Former Kansas Republican state senator Tim Emert recently urged members of the Kansas Senate Judiciary Committee to enact a moratorium on imposing the death sentence and executing those who have already been sentenced to die. Noting that capital punishment was his most troubling issue when he was a member of the Kansas legislature, Emert stated, “I came to the conclusion the only vote I could live with was a ‘no’ vote on the death penalty in Kansas. I could not, in my mind, be pro-life and…
Dec 09, 2003
NEW VOICES: Author of Law Establishing Lethal Injection Reflects on Politicization of Death Penalty
Twenty-six years ago, Bill Wiseman drafted the first lethal-injection law in U.S. history, forever changing the way most death penalty states administer executions. He now says that guilt compelled him to draft the legislation after voting to reinstate the death penalty in Oklahoma despite the fact that he had always been an opponent of capital punishment. At the time, Wiseman was a first-term lawmaker in Oklahoma’s assembly, and he knew opposing the state’s 1976 measure to bring back capital…
Dec 09, 2003
NEW VOICES: Former Supporter Will Oppose Any Measure to Restore Minnesota Death Penalty
Minnesota Senator Tom Neuville, the leading Republican committee member on the state’s Senate Judiciary Committee, says he will oppose Governor Tim Pawlenty’s efforts to reinstate death penalty. Neuville’s basic opposition is moral: “If we solve violence by becoming violent ourselves, we become diminished.” Neuville, a former death penalty supporter whose reexamination of his pro-life beliefs led him to change his mind on the issue, feels that many of his colleagues share his concerns. “Life…
Aug 06, 2003
NYC Mayor Restates Concerns About Innocence, Opposition to the Death Penalty
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a Republican, reiterated his opposition to capital punishment. Bloomberg noted, “The death penalty I’ve always had a problem with, because too many times in the past you’ve seen innocent people incarcerated and, tragically, every once in a while they’ve been executed. And until you can show me that the process never would ever convict somebody that later on we find out was innocent of a crime, murder is murder no matter who does it, and I think we as a…