Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick on Violence Prevention and the Death Penalty

Taylor Bonner 00:00

Hello, and welcome to 12:01, The Death Penalty in Context. I’m Taylor Bonner, Racial Justice Storyteller at the Death Penalty Information Center, and our guest today is Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick. Rafiah joins us from Tennessee as Director for Community Outreach with Tennesseans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, also known as TADP, and founder of Rodney’s Village, a non-profit committed to stopping violence by cultivating strong, supported communities, starting with young parents and their families. Not only is Rafiah a community advocate, but she also is a murder victim’s family member and speaks publicly on the intersection of her advocacy and lived experience. Thank you for joining us today, Rafiah.

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 00:52

Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure and an honor to be able to lend my voice in these spaces.

Taylor Bonner 01:00

Of course. So, I’d like to start off with some data that has informed the work you do. Between 1974 and 2012, Tennessee has sentenced 135 people between the ages of 18 and 28 to death. What does this statistic tell you?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 01:22

Well, number one, I don’t just think about the 135 death sentences. I think about the 135 babies. Because those individuals, I still look at as babies to me. And that, I find it deeply concerning that society measures the heinousness of an act based off of the act itself, not based off of the age of the person involved. You know, so often we hear they did an adult crime, they should do adult time. They don’t make them adults. And it scares me that we are okay with, as a society, disposing of these young people, looking at these individuals who have not yet had their brains all the way developed, who could be coming from all sorts of horrific circumstances in their own lives, that we have determined that these young people’s lives are not redeemable. In fact, it brings to mind, I was recently at a healing retreat, and it consisted of individuals who were surviving family members of murder victim, as well as individuals who had been sentenced as children for murder. Two of those individuals had actually been sentenced to death at that time. This was younger than age 18. Younger than age 18. And one of the gentlemen had made mention to me that he was not allowed to buy cigarettes or girly magazines. This gentleman was sentenced back in the 70s. He wasn’t allowed to buy those things, but this was somebody that we had planned on executing. You know, right now we’re getting ready in Tennessee, we are looking at, in the next couple months, in September to be exact, that a young woman by the name of Christa Pike, who was, I believe, the first woman we are looking to execute here in Tennessee, as well as she was only 18 years old when she committed a crime that placed her there. What I find really, really troubling, especially in her case, is that most recently here in Tennessee, we made it also the possibility in the event that the Supreme Court reverses the law that you would be able to be eligible for death penalty if you have performed child rape. And Christa Pike was a victim of child rape. So, on one hand, we’re saying a child rape is so horrific of a crime that that person should be subjected to the death penalty. However, at the same time, we are getting ready to execute a person that we know was a victim of child rape. You know, that’s so, so troubling. And it is horrific to me in itself. I absolutely believe that, I mean, accountability shall always happen to some extent, but I think we also have to look at the age of the individual and also look at the accountability of ourselves as a society, as a community. We often ask, where are the parents at? Or, you know, or look at these children like they were just born demons. And that keeps us from having to take any responsibility as a community, as a society, as a state, as a country in itself. When we have created conditions where parents are working multiple jobs just to survive, to navigate housing instability, their own untreated traumas, have so many limited resources that young people are experiencing all kinds of things. And this is not to excuse young people who have committed murder, but I think that when we are, before we are so quick to throw a child away, we first must be taking account for the things that have put that child in a situation where harm has ultimately been their outlet.

Taylor Bonner 05:40

Thank you for that, Rafiah. Going into your organization, Rodney’s Village. Rodney’s Village was born out of a profound personal loss. Would you share how founding the organization has shaped your own healing journey and the impact it has had on your life?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 05:58

Yeah, definitely. First, I think Rodney’s Village was born, I mean, I don’t think I would be thinking about Rodney’s Village had I not lost Rodney. But I was very careful after I lost my son and even knowing that I wanted something to commemorate his name. I didn’t want it to just be, we’re commemorating Rodney’s name. You know, I wanted it to be something that definitely had an impact or was a representative of who he was, and so Rodney was killed July 9th of 2020. And even though Rodney’s Village had been on my heart, probably from the beginning, we didn’t actually go 501(C)(3) until 2024. And the part of that came from, I think probably part of my own professional background. I worked in automotive manufacturing doing root cause analysis and problem solving for over 25 years. And so, after Rodney was killed, I found myself asking those same questions. Not simply why, but what created the conditions where something like this even happens? So, I started looking at kind of like the patterns for me or the common denominators with myself, with Rodney, with the person that had took his life. And one of the things that stood out for me was that I was a teenage parent. Rodney was born to a teenage parent. And the young man who killed him was a teenage parent. And then I also thought about who Rodney was. Rodney naturally lived with a village mentality. He helped raise his nieces and nephews. He fed people. He opened his homes to friends who needed somewhere to stay. In fact, after he died, people came to me with story after story about how Rodney had changed their lives. We actually had found clothes in the dryer that we didn’t know who they belonged to. And Rodney, when he was killed, he was actually killed here at home when one of him and one of his guests got into an altercation. And so, we didn’t know, you know, if the clothes belonged to one of those individuals. And so, they were thrown away. And a week or so later, this young couple came over to pay their respects. And the young man said, oh, and by the way, did you find any clothes in the washer or dryer or that were left behind? We said, oh, yeah, you know, we did find something in the dryer, but we threw them away. He was like, oh, my God. He’s like, he understood. He wasn’t upset. I don’t know how much the value was of it. But he was like, yeah, Rodney was doing laundry for me. So that was one thing that jumped out at me. Secondly, me and my husband, we had decided to foster a young person, an adult foster, I guess. The young man was 18 and needed a place to stay when he was graduating from high school. And so, when we were asking our children if it would be OK if we let this young man stay in Rodney’s room, my daughter lovingly made the statement. She’s like, mom, everybody’s lived here. I’m like, what do you mean? She’s like, everybody already been in Rodney’s room. Rodney let people in. He let people stay in his room or in the bonus room above the garage if they didn’t have a place to stay. And so that really hit home for me that we knew we wanted Rodney’s Village to be able to provide what these young people need to be raised and live in healthy environments. So, yeah, our focus is on teen parents and young parents and helping them with workforce development, helping them with their emotional regulations, how they resolve conflict appropriately, helping them, you know, with the different things that they would need as far as the tangible things. So, the tangible and untangible things are and we don’t just deal with a lot of times when you’re dealing with teenage parents, you’re often only dealing with the mother. We are very intentional on not only working with the mother, but the father, whether they’re in a relationship or not in this capacity and, you know, helping them raise and co-parent their children in a healthy environment.

Taylor Bonner 10:32

Thank you for that response, Rafiah. And from your answer, I can really envision that village aspect of Rodney’s Village and the work that you’re cultivating. For your work with Rodney’s Village and Tennesseans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, you’ve supported many victims’ families. What impact have you seen this work have on families who, like yours, have experienced violent loss?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 10:58

First off, one of the things that I love about Tennesseans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, that when I came into this space to focus on bringing survivors into this work, this death penalty work, being able to use their voices to say that this does not serve us. We recognize early on that in bringing them to this space, we also had to identify the tangible things that survivors needed. You know, it’s one thing to say what doesn’t serve them. It’s another when we’re not addressing the things that they do need. And so one of the great things that we’ve done, we were able to do is, number one, we were able to pass a victim’s compensation bill in 2024 that enhanced our victim’s compensation requirements, meaning that two things that stand out as one, two of the biggest changes is one, that we were able to enhance the individuals who could receive reimbursement for funeral expenses. Before it was only immediate family members, and we were able to pass legislation that took that all the way to great-grandparents being able to be reimbursed for funeral expenses, which is a big deal. We know that a lot of times when things like murder happen, a lot of times those individuals weren’t prepared for that to happen. You know, it’s an unlikely occurrence. And so, they are dependent on other family members to help when burying their child or their loved one. And so being able to now be able to get those individuals reimbursed is a big deal. Secondly, we were able to take the 48-hour requirement that we had previously, whereas you had to have a police report within 48 hours. We were able to take that all the way to two weeks. Again, a lot of times when you think about violent crime, we know that a lot of times it’s acquaintances that are harming each other. And so in those first 48 hours, a lot of times you’re still in shock that somebody that you are an acquaintance with, somebody that you knew, maybe somebody you even love, has done some type of harm to you. So, we know that’s not enough time to be able to get the police involved a lot of times, especially when we’re talking about our young people who are also maybe dealing with fear of the person that harmed them or fear of telling, you know, what does that look like? And so being able to get that extended to two weeks was a big deal. So we were, after we passed that bill, the second thing we were able to do is that through Rodney’s Village and Tennesseans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, as well as another organization, Mothers Over Murder, we were able to identify a way to go across Tennessee and actually educate those survivors on how to apply for victims’ compensation, as well as bring people together who had been harmed and people who had done harm, to identify what those people that have been harmed need and to identify what those things that the people that, where we failed, the individuals who had done harm, so that we can start working on individuals who have not found themselves in those spaces yet, not doing it again. So, I mean, I think those were two of the biggest things. We call it Healed People, Heal People, because it’s one of the greatest lessons I’ve learned that even though violence, trauma, fear, and grief spread, healing also is contagious as well. And one of the things that I love about Healed People, Heal People is that not only are you bringing individuals together that are starting to be able to name the things that they do need, they also are able to identify, hey, you know, now I’m learning more about the death penalty. That is something that I don’t know how I feel about that anymore. How does that benefit me, even though, you know, I might be angry, you know, or I might feel that an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, how does that, is that overall going to help me as a survivor heal from what has happened? So, hurt spreads, violence spreads, but healing spreads too.

Taylor Bonner 15:28

Very well said. A recent report published last month by MLK50, Justice Through Journalism, found that from 1995 to 2019, nearly 90% of children convicted of felony murder in Tennessee were Black. How does Tennessee’s felony murder rule intersect with capital punishment? And what impact does it have on Black youth and Black communities?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 15:58

You know, I think that, I think I found out about felony murder around the same time as I found out about the death penalty. Coming here, moving, relocating here from a state that did not have those type of charges. When I lived in Illinois, they didn’t have the death penalty. And originally, I’m from Michigan and did not have the death penalty. And then to come here and to find out that an individual that may have had no intentions, didn’t know why they were there in the crime that was committed, could be eligible or were eligible from the death penalty, is just horrifying. I’m thinking about two gentlemen that come to mind. One of the things that came to mind is Corinio Pruitt, who, you know, was intending to carjack this gentleman, pulled him out the car to take his car, and the gentleman hit his head and died a few days later. And so making Corinio, because he intended to steal the car, eligible for the death penalty. He was 24. Well, Kevin Burns, who was just riding in the car, had no idea where they were going, what they were doing, I think was younger than everybody else involved, was the only individual in the car who was actually given the death penalty. And the other two individuals either have already been released from prison or have received sentences where they will, do eventually have the opportunity to be out, you know, to be free. So, you know, those things are very scary. I also have a good friend, Rivera Piegels, who was serving more than 100 years under a theory of criminal responsibility, which is almost quite similar to felony murder. Those kind of things are really traumatizing, especially when you start thinking of youth who are together. Somebody in the group, you know, has this idea that we need, we should go do this. Or says, you know, you got gang participation. You have young people who don’t have the family support that they need and are looking for families out here on the streets that might find themselves in situations that they didn’t even intend on. And what we’re also seeing is that when the individual who knows that wasn’t the intention may not have known that was going to happen, is a lot less likely to want to plead to this offense. And what we’re seeing is that sometimes it looks like that they are being punished for their refusal to take a plea. So, they’re being adamant that I didn’t do this, that I shouldn’t be here, that I shouldn’t be charged with this. And because you refused to take a plea, now I’m giving you 100 plus years. Now I’m giving you the death penalty. And when we’re thinking about our youth, couple that with a lot of times these are young people, not just African-Americans, but also youth. It’s a horrifying reality.

Taylor Bonner 18:51

You were involved in the advocacy surrounding Tennessee death row defendant, Tony Carruthers’ execution. Looking back on that experience, what stands out to you? And how did you navigate advocating against his execution while also honoring the victims and their families?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 19:10

Actually, I would say that, but not only in, I mean, in Tony Carruthers’ case being the one that I probably had got closest to as far as with the family of Tony, it probably put me more in a position of how do I make sure I’m still honoring the family? I always honor the family in this work. But most of the time, it’s not public-facing that I’m standing, you know, with the family of the person who is facing a death penalty. You know, I could be an anonymous individual or somebody that nobody even knows. And in Tony Carruthers’ case, with it being so high profile, I think it was a lot more sensitive to me sending out a message to those victims’ family that I’m in no way criticizing or judging what you want. You know, and I really do feel that way. I do not feel that if there’s a victim’s family feels like the death penalty were served, who am I to tell them that it won’t? But what I can say, as a mother who lost my own child, that the death penalty does not serve the thousands and thousands of families who are not impacted by the death penalty. I mean to say is that we have 45 individuals, I think it’s 45 individuals here on death row. None of those 45 people on death row. You may have some families. I know. And even in some of that, like in Tony Carruthers’ case, you had the situation where there’s multiple families that were impacted. He had three, there were three separate victims. You had multiple individuals involved and some of them want it and some of them don’t. And that’s the other thing about the death penalty is that it tears families apart because you got the individuals who do want it and you have the individuals that don’t want it. And then the ones that don’t want it are usually the ones that don’t want it are the ones that are traumatized the most. You know, a lot of times they’re ostracized by the rest of the family because this is not something that they want and it doesn’t speak for them. But as I stated, when we think about the thousands and thousands of families that the death penalty does not serve, it does not give us healing. It does not support the things that we don’t have access to. It doesn’t give us closure. And it’s being done in our name. When they say that the state of Tennessee has a death penalty to serve victims, but yet you are not in actuality caring what these victims are actually telling you they want. Even in an event where we have that victim’s families who have told them they don’t want the death penalty and we’ve still proceeded to execute somebody. So, I think, like I said, I think it’s very important that we always honor. I have spoke publicly when I’m speaking out against why Tony Carruthers had been executed, didn’t serve me. You know, I made sure that I sent a message to the family that I honor you. I understand. I’m here. I’ve lost with you. You’ve lost. And I know that that is an unimaginable pain, but focusing on revenge and retribution does not help me heal. All we can do is hope and pray that those families are not further harmed or receive what they need, even in the event that that person is executed.

Taylor Bonner 23:06

And so going off of that answer, according to records obtained by the Tennessean, the Tennessee Department of Corrections spent nearly $600,000 between 2017 and 2025 obtaining lethal injection drugs. So, if those public funds had instead been invested in victims and survivors of violent crime, where do you think they could have made the greatest difference?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 23:35

If our lawmakers would actually spend some time listening to their constituents and actually spending some time in some communities and finding out how much devastation that grief causes, that trauma causes. I know so many individuals who are unable to hold their jobs afterwards. I lost my son. I mean, I was fortunately in a situation that I married well, and so my husband was able to take care of the family. I mean, but we still lost 50% of our income because I just couldn’t work anymore. I wasn’t able to show up. I could not move out of that space. Also, thankfully, I worked for an employer that did have some type of insurance. But what about all the numerous families that don’t have that? They don’t have any protections. That job is only going to let them off for a couple of days if they even have bereavement qualifications, depending on how long they’ve been there. You know, if you just started working there, you might not even be able to get time off. Incurring absences to bury a loved one is a horrible thing. So many individuals who need to relocate because, you know, living in that same home where trauma occurred is an impossible task. Or the fact that they can’t afford to pay for their home because of the fact that they can’t work. You know, there’s so many things that individuals think that we’re only talking about counseling. Counseling is a big requirement. Yes, especially our young people. There’s so much counseling that is needed. But I would say a lot of people do not realize how big of a financial impact that going through a trauma incurs on your life and your stability, your housing, your education. And so, $600,000 could go to support victims with the things that they actually do need instead of taking the life of an individual in my name or in a victim’s name. Every dollar invested in healing and prevention, those strengthen communities in ways that the death penalty never will be able to do.

Taylor Bonner 25:51

Thank you, Rafiah. You’ve given our listeners a lot to digest and a lot to learn from. As we wrap up, what message would you like most the listeners to take away from this conversation?

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 26:06

Hopefully they understand that survivors are not one-dimensional, that we can grieve deeply and still have mercy, that we can demand accountability and reject vengeance. We can honor the people that lives that we’ve lost, the loved ones that we’ve lost while working to prevent someone else’s loss. Over the years, I’ve come to believe something very deeply. I refuse to believe violence begins the moment someone commits a crime. Violence grows in environments where too many people, institutions, and communities have failed to notice, failed to intervene, or failed to care. But I’ve also learned the opposite is true. If a village can contribute to violence through neglect, then a village can also prevent violence through love, through accountability of ourselves, and identifying where we failed and put in the systems that need to be there for our young people to have access to all the resources that they need, all the opportunities that they can possibly have, and that support. That’s the vision behind Rodney’s Village. That’s the vision behind Healed People Heal People. That’s the vision behind why I do this work as an individual who is focused on eliminating the death penalty. That’s the kind of justice I want us to build. Justice isn’t measured only by what we punish. It’s measured by what we restore. So I want the listeners to walk away from us no longer wanting to invest in systems that cause further harm to our young people, on systems that can take away the life of a person. We need to be focused on investing in systems that will prevent an individual from ever wanting to do harm.

Taylor Bonner 28:07

Thank you so much for your expertise and your vulnerability, Rafiah. To learn more about the work of Tennesseans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, visit their website at tennesseedeathpenalty.org. And to learn more about Rodney’s Village, visit rodneysvillage.org. To learn more about the death penalty across the U.S., you can visit DPI’s website at deathpenaltyinfo.org. To support the 12:01 podcast and all of DPI’s work, please visit deathpenaltyinfo.org/donate. And to make sure you never miss an episode, please subscribe to 12:01 in your podcast app of choice. Thank you so much, Rafiah.

Rafiah Muhammad-McCormick 28:54

You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.